image and a supporter of international filmmakers, some world class journalists, bring programs to inform that inspired to options a way to in the immediate future climate crisis or planet revolutionary on alger 0 or lies, or on the international criminal court. it's investigating israel's actions in dallas and the west bank and it's really officials ferrets for perry to issue a restaurant states, a prime minister, and all the senior figures. so what would legal action means? the country honestly that this is inside store the, at a very welcome to the program on the clock. so israel's prime minister says nobody will stop it's mandatory actions, not even the international criminal court. the icpc is investigating the country's

operations in gall, certainly occupied westbank. and could issue warrants for the rest of benjamin netanyahu and other is ready. lead is pieces such a move would be outrages and set a dangerous precedent in the foreign minister. and since the country will not be the tubs, and will continue to fight the quotes, the prosecutor says, anybody who breaks the law will be held accountable. this rel, is not part of the i c c, and does not recognize as jurisdiction. yes, any warranty issues could put into officials at risk of being arrested in other countries. so what does this mean for netanyahu in this country? we'll put that to our guest shortly before us this report from image. and can that is really officials say the international criminal court may issue arrest warrants for senior members of government employment as to benjamin netanyahu. maybe on the list charges could be imagined through crimes committed during israel's own going on cause of emergency meetings, have a pool to deepen,

held by the prime minister's office. somewhere under my leadership. israel will never accept any attempts by the icpc to undermine its inherent rights of self defense. well, the i, c. c will not fix israel's actions. it would say to a dangerous precedent that threatens the soldiers and officials of old democracies fighting savage terrorism and one to an aggression. the icpc is the only permanent international court that can prosecute individuals for crimes against humanity. competing genocide, palestine is admitted in 2015, but israel is known as a member and does not recognize its jurisdiction. however, many is writings all looked into the quote in the hague for justice over these rays taken captive on october the 7th by hannah. she beheld queen ali accountable for that to us. if we trust this, it is to see has the capacity to read about justice for the hostages and their

families. the trust and trust, the tutor to israel is reinforced, i believe in the integrity and professionalism of the 4th international criminal court post the key to kareem called says the a tax on october, the 7th come on to the quotes jurisdiction and all part of his investigation into crimes and magically committed in garza, most of all must be respected. they can't be rented, although they can't be interpreted so as to avoid them of meaning or to dilute a well vis, right? any protective purpose that the geneva conventions of the law provides the most valuable children, women, people that are sick or civilians. they must be interpreted with full protection. the prosecutor has expressed deep concern over his writing cautions and its booming of rough uh, wearer, and 1500000 people. sheltering possible charges could include acts regarded as

collective punishments, including the deliberate salvation. palestinians and garza and the withholding of a israel has faced numerous accusations of crimes against humanity by international lawyers and un representative. the state is also facing the case of genocide in the international court of justice. foot by south africa presents for nathaniel hayes and arrest warrant may not be of immediate concern fault. it could impact his position internationally. it's only one thing, better imaging, kimber out a 0. the inside story. a certain painting to take on. let's bring a panel of guess from tel aviv give you an levy. is columbus with her? it's newspaper and country and the united kingdom jeffrey nice is a virus the and the human rights lawyer and in the delton bug stevens, eunice is a professor of politics at the university of san francisco giants. a very well welcome to all of you at the i c. c by saying definition investigates where

warranted and tribes and individuals charged with the greatest crimes of concern to the international community. you know, the working so be nice to see very well jeffrey. nice. we might well expect that the i c c would be looking into potential cries for both israel and how mass given everything that is going on since october, the 7th. it absolutely it should look at it. i'm glad, even though it's happening to no problem. what mr. collins said that all the primes of october, the 7th or commissioner on the is the side of the state of israel. he's satisfied, he's got jurisdiction there, and it's well known that he has jurisdiction for any crimes committed on garza, or indeed, on the west bank because of the acceptance of journalistic. and by the code following a statement by the pattern sending over which in 1995. so from the very beginning,

both sides of this country could have be. now i'm glad to say are being investigated by a 0 piece as being the established international court. you mentioned that jeffrey kreme calling the chief prosecutor of these natural criminal court at one more thing jeffrey the, the fact that as well as no signature aid to the i c. c. what difference does that make? how does that affect things? well, it doesn't mean the circumstances, because if this account is satisfied already, that he has jurisdiction of crimes committed on garza territory. and he's satisfied the crimes committed on territory of israel. possibly because they were initiated on gossley in the territory of garza, then they'd make set of different cities for the member, the international criminal code. it comp avoid the exercise of jurisdiction. but i missed a call on his team of prosecutors who have to wait and see what the outcome of those investigations are. all right, so what's the picture in tel aviv lets me to give you an levy. he's at the now and

knows the fence, the pulse of what's happening, the fact that benjamin netanyahu has, has come out and spoken about this get in uh, what does that say? and what does it demonstrate is the word known as warranty. but i must be frankly 0. there are moments of reach, i'm hope for it's a very i was very worried and the not only that, it's in the all, this was the moment that they all these really lead which is involved in your probation in the oil and gas. i was afraid of this find the everyone care. so the said before anything is full judges. so in the, to my base, their lives quite complicated bundle will be able to trevor the with the fact that you, i wanted makes the. busy the or game and you getting itself any more the condemnation . so the, your, the resolution. so they have a u. n. a germany assembly. how it's about the decline to larry.

israel is a place where international crime, so being coordinated and good not as being want to be. she's going to change the organ. when you say uh there are members of administration, not any benjamin netanyahu, who you're talking about and tell us, let's explore more, why they would be so afraid as you put it. okay. so spoke many years ago, the way even moments in re shay, and even the few cases in which administer didn't get all the planning long gone. and the other general can, since he's busy, say, somewhere in europe because there was some kind of pumas because of my iphones in a surprise way. you're not necessarily expecting it when you land video being country and all of a sudden you find yourself in german. i don't see it happening so, so good k. but even though they said most fear of feeling the ones that this is

very productive, i want to say that one more sentence. mm hm. it's very clear to me and he's that think they're more of guys the same, the private circle me just it's very clear to me entries that nobody is going to investigate those crimes. and for to bring to adjust these though for responsible and accountable on those scribes didn't leave the situation in any possible way in which no, but you wouldn't be thinking accountable unless sometimes the international institutions we get into the picture. and therefore, i say before, twice a day in there in various ways there's, i'm also wondering because i think that those, so i comfortable for those tries to be brought to justice. okay, i steven soon as let's get the perspective from the united states and some would

say across the world that the i c c environments would give if they come with give another blow to is rose already by tomorrow standing. but of course, it depends on perception, and it's a completely different view point. for example, within the u. s. administration, isn't it very much. so, and the united states has been fairly hostile towards the international criminal court, or from the very beginning, not only is the united states, one of the few western countries are not members of the court, but us of law as a forbid, as the united states from cooperating with the court in any way. in fact, it goes as far as saying that the, the president is authorized to use whatever means necessary, which implies military force if any, if the united states or anybody, any american or any member of allied country is held by or on behalf of the i

c c, does those nickname, the invasion that got another a negative response from the doctors you might imagine. but what we're going to say from united states, if indeed there is an indictment against matching yahoo is that you'll immediately be attacked as by us, as hypocritical as a double standard, which is, are wrong because the, and there have been a number of foreign pads of states that have been indicted amendment and almost all black africans and the exception and actually is bottom air pollutant and nothing arrows and died. it would be the 1st pro western leader to ever get an indictment. and yes, you can even better to leave the united states will consist of the big board to somehow buy us. just as i said, when the international court of justice or other international bodies have i've called out israel for violations of international law. jeffrey gideon mentioned at the fact that he didn't think it would happen any time soon. how long

could this process take away? how soon could it happens? what i mean? it's hard to know. i imagine the ccs prosecutor's being investigating this with some energy from the soon as it became possible that israel's response to the terrible attack re okay, was a 7th, was excessive. and so that gives involve 4 or 5 months, i suppose could have been doing the work that he clearly has been doing. and there's a reason to believe that his arrest long if long his issue, that's how he room at the moment will be out of the event on satisfactory grounds. 5, he's got to stop at some stage. and at that stage, providing there is no pressure applied to the i c, c to withdrawal the arrest. want then i have a or can your government in israel,

my surrender people such as nothing yahoo to try on the international criminal court, which is what happened in the case of slowing down the rush, which was not african head of state who was tried. oh, maybe in the later time, he'll find himself in a foreign country where he thinks he's safe and he is, and he is found it over st. reprise to at tool and in any of the senior members of his political cabinet or military trying to come on the mailman to may be the subject of arrest barnes. so it could happen comparatively quickly or it could be in limbo for a very long time. indeed, really, that's just a 2nd to clarify that jeffrey sort of jump in there. but just to clarify that say so it could happen relatively quickly, but within the confines of the war itself, while the war is still going on. when i was so that was impossible, was it because mister netanyahu is known as he's prime minister is not going to make himself available to be arrested by any one in with me at the gideon

levy. the perception within israel will differ widely given the painter idea of, of the prime minister. the just give us some idea of, of how it would be resolved rule. this would put benjamin netanyahu in the same category as far a lead is like, and we're all about. she had the deposed president of sued on, and indeed, the russian president vladimir putin. the best of i would like to hear that focusing only on its own. y'all was ordered by lack of respect for the video for the older folk listen, it's audio is really unfair because what we see now is an outcome of view. so it's very clear for the superclass i dental 2 patients. if any, all didn't start the visit the now been seen, fancied including the incursions simple guys and proposed to every single nathan. yeah, he's very comfortable. and then to claim that i still where you get treat today to

people from the neo is what returning to the paradise, the the oldest gen busy 3. be easily be a little bit over sick the car beat, so they're both, it's a new oh and no they dropped the floor because this was use accepted by that. my showings are, is only probably popping in the floor was approved by the entire government and boss of the men. most of the time i thought supporting this war. and so for people to use the score, it's not like one big stated to you to piece or stage into a war is now he's responsible. there are many more this will they share interest posts that are supposed to be in a cult? they've been in the amount of them august, the biggest this is also the edge of the country. i think that they are looking for be in those right now is why we as usual, put students in it's that perpetual war and playing the i sees i have to submit to

think that i was going to be so i think is why we play the dose of douglas down, this is when we claim that the or her, the 8 so it no one or most of the one is what i read us. just simple and how do we get to it? is it's really only the words for is the know for done by use read. are we really so you know, sense the really cool. got this war even guys. uh, according to the technician at all those questions with not to be honest. yeah. to it. lets take it onto the uh, but at least back to the main page in russia. uh, if we could, uh, stevens units because you do wonder what difference this would make given what happened to him, the ccs, pre trial chambers shooting the warrant for the rest of that. and it puts in a mazda 17th 2023. it is made up. so, you know, differences retired on his war and ukraine with impunity. so what the difference is,

it likes to make in this case israel is much more dependent on outside of the trade and military have and the like the rush. it is a rush, obviously is a huge country of open size in population. israel, despite its military might, and technological sophistication is still quite small, and indeed quite quite dependent. and it would make it very difficult. now for a nursing, yahoo and other is rarely see, are indicted from traveling abroad. the united states might be just about the only country where they could travel to, to safely say it safely. and uh, and also i think it could uh, increase the uh, possibility that there can be some sanctions or some limitations other pressure from western countries. again, in the united states unfortunately,

would probably resist this kind of thing, but it would empower, i think, human rights activist and, and their supporters including trade unions in popular movements and for the international community, a to put a greater pressure on this room. and so i don't think uh, nothing yahoo is any more likely to actually see just to this actually go to go to prison and intrusion. i think the political impact could indeed be quite more significant. but it is israel, these really governments, it has shown itself to be a monster of ignoring international sanctions. they thank you very much sir. the trouble is a sanctions have not been that strong. the united states obviously has block united nations from taking any action. and while some european countries, i've been reluctant to of the, to provide certain kinds of military technology use, the trade is going to is continue and, and, you know, that israel is seen very much as a part of europe in certain ways. and with an environment like this,

i think it would be a far more controversial, at least. and i think certainly there are some, uh, some sections good to be there that needs released could actually feel for the 1st time out again, rather this, it will actually alter policy as long as we have this lifeline to the united states . that is another question, but certainly they, they don't go there. they will feel that there will be sent them back and get in benjamin does know who's that came out and said that this would not affect you as well as actions moving forward. but then you think it might have implications on the way that israel behaves it immediately. the world gross knows about the show trust because the owls main purpose is now to achieve this audit. you've ever gone? no faith summation, come, boss. and he's, are, the goal is to remain in power. no meant a what's the icpc is a beside the n for the cs. the continual, and i'm afraid to really call it to,

you know, sort of sort of even if she stops now the wrong. busy or the i c c a is a, me, i being the crime. so we're committed and someone will have to be taken account of and for those problems, i mean we, we face enough to best to present guys. i ended up 7 minds. don't think them now is to leads mid to late, but i don't think that this is still isn't in the neo gets in doral unfortunately. so do you think that will still proceed now? i'm afraid so unless the americans wouldn't be very clear about it, which they don't seem to be jeffrey, there is a suggestion that this is the investigation will be attached to it has been attached to the current itc investigations underway and into potential crimes which date back to 2014, to the 13th of june, 2014. so this about the if you would,

and just how that would work. just attaching the 2 together, attaching them as possible, i suppose, if for continuing intention on the part of israel that could be said to be criminal is established. but it is a burden. another really important part about operation protective edge of 2014. and what happened subsequent to it in 2014 as well. and they're certainly get accepted. that would be a good thing is c i c c went in and the following year. the i c c got jurisdiction, that's 2015. so we have to look at the a t is over which it might be argued to the i, c. c, have dragged its freak concerning the uh, on happy and tragic events of 2014, much smaller than they might have been the present crisis. consequences and you

have to ask, well, supposing in fact the i c c had shown itself to be busy in those 8 years, 9 years and showed itself to be willing to take home these really leadership not to be intimidated by the united states, which may well over those years have been turning it from taking action. you my boss gets the present thing could have happened. a tool to present conflict would have happened a tool because leaders on both sides, how about assigned israel would have know that there was a legal system in white and ready to deal with them even if it had the battery. finally got wrong to issue me a risk lawrence about project about the event since october, so protective badge and everything that's happened since then in the legal setting

may indeed be something that provides a continual retreat of intention on the part of his dread. remember that project managers described by some is positive is right state vitro. as a policy of mine, the ross, which was the way perhaps keeping goes on to control. this is a continuing intention shared in between the 2. then it's entirely possible for the prosecutor. we'll be looking at the crimes as connected much gray, whether the press of bonds needs those. how that happened in 2014 extremely serious . indeed. there's a well $500.00 children cope. i think. all right, thanks for that jeffrey this, steven a. so we have these itc investigations guy on then of course there is south africans genocide, case that the international court of justice. how do these 2 separate investigations square up and then i guess they kind of run concurrently, right? very much so many one looks at and now the specifics of the ongoing war,

whether it does constitute a violation of the international genocide of treating the or and, and, and whether it is real indeed is guilty of such a violations. there is a simultaneous sort of a case actually about rock around the legality of the, of a fifty's tons of southern europe. is really our occupation of the west bank and other territories seized in the june 1967 war. they are not supported justice, which has been around for, for many, many decades. it is, is business about countries about individual countries and their relation to international law. and they are brought forward young by of each other. other member nations, obviously, you know, world court, the national criminal court which has found only recently in 1999 the looks of crimes of individuals. so it's more on the, on the level. they are the international justice, looked at israel on a state level and there violations where's the i c. c. a looks at it on the

individual level of the individual leaders who are responsible for specific work aren't good. and how do you think this latest reprobation is likely to affect the world views of you? we touched on the united states anyway, the student process as l squared in the relevant data, widespread is growing condemnation or light over the glamour of the way israel is acting. does this just adds to that? does it, it makes the whole concept. what is rails doing in garza to many toxic no doubt. that's the last 7. mind swear. crucial as in the way that they changed that into the, the worst, all these red and the style mode. so that was, that was in the style mode. so the united states, and this time even some of the jewish communities in the world, is using big travelers. we have to face a, we have to have the weight. it is like this up see divide 0. but that's another

question. but they said it's all, it's all connected to this, the call you see that these walking guys, uh, which was bunch, was the oh there was that is a head launched before. always spelt many, mo, cbd is being cute. should the women so patient destruction, you name me then you know, or you'll know exactly what they mean. this whole is a game changer after this war cannot be perceived anymore as a pause for the same case that these ladies, i don't expose. so they just got people know what he's showing there, but there was these guys. and anyone who sees guys totaled remaining deeper read, cannot say oh, but you see oh yeah. they created, the more anyone who sees guys up is very, very hard question. floss a big, big,

suspicious about the one those why count the vote for this. and therefore it's the coins events. each of those by was trying now bring people who are responsible for their reality in guys to be taken into account of that. and that's exactly the role of the international community. a gentleman all the time is done. we appreciate your contributions. thank you very much. thanks for what i guess they give you. let me, jeffrey dyson, stevens. you know, thanks very much and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again at any time just by visiting a website out. is there a common for further discussion? just go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. because you can also join the conversation on x i'll handle is at a j inside story for me, the clock and the whole team here is good bye for now. the

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